I propose we follow Sue's philosophy of what sells bet and do another furry set of shifter cards net and that should be werecats. Now while I like Orcs and Gargoyles, many of the people that were attracted to her art and the game came in from the "furry cons" so werecats would help kick start the "relaunch" of the game.
I agree. I'm not looking to just bring out one set, though. I'd like to bring out multiple sets for as many shifter types as possible by Pentacon. I see no reason that werecats cant' be first. :-)
Cats are fun. I will say with no disrespect intended to the furry community, that one of the problems I have had with DS’s marketing strategy was its near single-minded focus on that small part of the gaming world. I’d like to see the core races built out, especially the base sets of humans, dwarves, elves, dragons, werewolves, gargoyles, and unicorns, some of which have already been done obviously ;) Following that I’d like to see the rogues get their card set, though that’s purely due to my own personal bias. Basically, I’d like to see the core cards get built out so 2.0 is playable as a game with more than two shifter types and so that the included races get their specialty cards. After that, the blood lines, and after that further magics and masteries. It’s my intention to spend most of my time at Gencon next year running demos, and I would find that much easier if I had a diverse selection of races and shifter types to make characters with. This is more in the way of a caution than a disagreement. Anne has it right imho. I just want to make sure that the game is specifically targeted at the larger gaming community to include furries than the specific focus we’ve seen in years past.
Blind Fury, I was thinking of the people that we see the most at Cons that's all. In reality, I would LOVE to see Gargoyles and orcs come out next. I'm kinda partial to those shifter races. And I do think we should have a set of cards for each race, like Human, elf, Dwarf, etc. at some point but I'm not sure those are in demand as much as more shifters since the only ones printed (that I remember for 2.0) were dragons and werewolves.
If artwork is available, or a reasonable facsimile thereof, I'd like to bring out a base set on all of the rest of the shifter types, AND orcs, at one time! It can be done. :-)
I am, of course, partial to Orcs. I would also like to see the Bloodlines and Clanborn betas explored and developed. I would like to not only see races developed, but the subgroups developed as well. So not only would I like to see Human, Elf, Dward, Canine, Rodent cards, but I'd also like to see a set for Manilac, Farilan, Ebony, Dwarf Clans and Orc Tribes.
I am of two minds for this. As I see it, there are two very distinct and disparate groups within the DS fan base - furries and everyone else.
Furries have a HUGE presence in many of the conventions Mark and Susan chose to attend, partly because of her anthropomorphic art. It caught the eye and drew in a crowd of people who in some cases were never gamers to begin with, but then here is this game that takes something they connect very intimately with and makes it even more acceptable. I would be loath to diminish that.
Everyone else refers to gamers who are in the game for love of gaming and diversity. For them I would love to see all the races fleshed out eventually.
Tim mentioned starting out softly, buy releasing some sets of cards that are the races and classes and building up sets that way. I think that if we approach this in a steady manner, by releasing sets that pertain to anyone first and then one by one sets for each group alternated with sets for everyone, we will see less disparity and be able to build stronger characters and stronger games.
Yes, the Furry community really likes Susan's artwork. But, sadly, there is no way to generate more art until, if, or when she is able to create new artwork again. If you want to draw a certain segment of people in, you need a way to do that. Suggestions?
I find myself liking what everyone has said, but think we should focus on basics first.
Establishing that modular approach to building the beginning character would be my first priority.
It will not be that hard to put together one sheet basic sets for each race and shifter type.
I would then consider the card sets mentioned on published background cards that don't yet exist before introducing new material. Talking about Aristocrat, Philosopher, Street, and any others I don't recall.
Bloodline cards would be nice early too.
I would recommend thinking in terms of new players building new characters and focus first on the cards new pcs need or could access early.
I'm all for the neat new material ideas I've seen here...later. :-)
Yes, available artwork is an issue for all new card sets.
I will not be targeting a particular audience or market. I see the game as one entity. We expand the game for the good of all of us. I'm not in this for the money. Susan will benefit, although DS was never a source of income for her. Her artwork was always what paid the bills, so-to-speak. I will basically be just continuing to grow the brand, if possible.
I came up with the modular character design as a my way of limiting the number of cards a player would need to invest in to make any character he/she wants. There are essentially 11 races, 9 shifter types, and 3 genders, if you make gender-neutral on of them. What I was initially proposing was an 18-card set of races and gender cards, and a 9-card set of shifter types. All you need then are backgrounds and you're good to go.
I personally would like to see the races develope more. Dragon's have a lot going on with them personally and don't think they need much else. They have the most cards out of any character type and Werewolves are starting to get that way too.
I'd personally would like to see more attacks for Unicorns, Pegasus, Wererats, Griffins, and Phoenixes. (Mostly the last two bc it's so hard to get their cards in the first place!)
I honestly LOVE the idea of the Wereshark, but it's got only 5 cards and A LOT of negatives. The only positive I can see is they are the only true aquatic beast out of them all and would be great for attacking the slave trade ships. I definitely think these should be pushed into becoming a bigger thing, but take out the (lose a card every 6 hours on land) bit, unless you come up with some sort of item that can stop that. That item can be magical or something. I honestly would make a Wereshark if they were more developed and put some serious thought into them.
Sense Furries are the thing, Scalies are probably become big too. ((Scalies are like furries, but with scales or lack of fur/feathers. Ya know, lizards, snakes, dragons, fish, whales, dolphins, etc)) For another possibility if the wereshark doesn't work out due to it's lack of breathing air, how 'bout something similar like a Whale, kinda like the killer whale?
I have no idea if anybody likes the thought or if anybody even liked the idea of the wereshark other then me, but I wanna put it out there.
Something in this vein, mom and I came up with aquatic forms for all the races, except the phoenix, that have been met with great relish by the players in our groups. The dragons had great fun as sea serpents taking out some of those aforementioned slavers. We also had narwhals, hippocampi, giant squid and a mer-avatar for underwater cerimonies. I'd love to see those published. I'd like to see an ungulate set using some of the Vorn betas I wrote all those years ago, but I would imagine aqua forms would be more popular.
Ok, lets break this thing in!
ReplyDeleteI propose we follow Sue's philosophy of what sells bet and do another furry set of shifter cards net and that should be werecats. Now while I like Orcs and Gargoyles, many of the people that were attracted to her art and the game came in from the "furry cons" so werecats would help kick start the "relaunch" of the game.
opposing ideas? other thoughts?
I agree. I'm not looking to just bring out one set, though. I'd like to bring out multiple sets for as many shifter types as possible by Pentacon. I see no reason that werecats cant' be first. :-)
ReplyDeleteCats are fun. I will say with no disrespect intended to the furry community, that one of the problems I have had with DS’s marketing strategy was its near single-minded focus on that small part of the gaming world. I’d like to see the core races built out, especially the base sets of humans, dwarves, elves, dragons, werewolves, gargoyles, and unicorns, some of which have already been done obviously ;)
ReplyDeleteFollowing that I’d like to see the rogues get their card set, though that’s purely due to my own personal bias. Basically, I’d like to see the core cards get built out so 2.0 is playable as a game with more than two shifter types and so that the included races get their specialty cards. After that, the blood lines, and after that further magics and masteries.
It’s my intention to spend most of my time at Gencon next year running demos, and I would find that much easier if I had a diverse selection of races and shifter types to make characters with.
This is more in the way of a caution than a disagreement. Anne has it right imho. I just want to make sure that the game is specifically targeted at the larger gaming community to include furries than the specific focus we’ve seen in years past.
Blind Fury, I was thinking of the people that we see the most at Cons that's all. In reality, I would LOVE to see Gargoyles and orcs come out next. I'm kinda partial to those shifter races. And I do think we should have a set of cards for each race, like Human, elf, Dwarf, etc. at some point but I'm not sure those are in demand as much as more shifters since the only ones printed (that I remember for 2.0) were dragons and werewolves.
DeleteIf artwork is available, or a reasonable facsimile thereof, I'd like to bring out a base set on all of the rest of the shifter types, AND orcs, at one time! It can be done. :-)
ReplyDeleteI'd love to expand the Orcs. Dwarfs got clans. Orcs need tribes
ReplyDeleteMe likey!
DeleteI am, of course, partial to Orcs. I would also like to see the Bloodlines and Clanborn betas explored and developed. I would like to not only see races developed, but the subgroups developed as well. So not only would I like to see Human, Elf, Dward, Canine, Rodent cards, but I'd also like to see a set for Manilac, Farilan, Ebony, Dwarf Clans and Orc Tribes.
ReplyDeleteYep, I agree. Down the list a ways, but definitely doable.
DeleteI am of two minds for this.
ReplyDeleteAs I see it, there are two very distinct and disparate groups within the DS fan base - furries and everyone else.
Furries have a HUGE presence in many of the conventions Mark and Susan chose to attend, partly because of her anthropomorphic art. It caught the eye and drew in a crowd of people who in some cases were never gamers to begin with, but then here is this game that takes something they connect very intimately with and makes it even more acceptable. I would be loath to diminish that.
Everyone else refers to gamers who are in the game for love of gaming and diversity. For them I would love to see all the races fleshed out eventually.
Tim mentioned starting out softly, buy releasing some sets of cards that are the races and classes and building up sets that way. I think that if we approach this in a steady manner, by releasing sets that pertain to anyone first and then one by one sets for each group alternated with sets for everyone, we will see less disparity and be able to build stronger characters and stronger games.
Just my double penny.
Yes, the Furry community really likes Susan's artwork. But, sadly, there is no way to generate more art until, if, or when she is able to create new artwork again. If you want to draw a certain segment of people in, you need a way to do that. Suggestions?
DeleteI find myself liking what everyone has said, but think we should focus on basics first.
ReplyDeleteEstablishing that modular approach to building the beginning character would be my first priority.
It will not be that hard to put together one sheet basic sets for each race and shifter type.
I would then consider the card sets mentioned on published background cards that don't yet exist before introducing new material. Talking about Aristocrat, Philosopher, Street, and any others I don't recall.
Bloodline cards would be nice early too.
I would recommend thinking in terms of new players building new characters and focus first on the cards new pcs need or could access early.
I'm all for the neat new material ideas I've seen here...later. :-)
Follow-up question for Tim.
ReplyDeleteIs available artwork a limiting factor here?
Another follow-up question.
ReplyDeleteIs this discussion about targeting sets to print for convention markets?
That would change my thinking entirely.
Yes, available artwork is an issue for all new card sets.
ReplyDeleteI will not be targeting a particular audience or market. I see the game as one entity. We expand the game for the good of all of us. I'm not in this for the money. Susan will benefit, although DS was never a source of income for her. Her artwork was always what paid the bills, so-to-speak. I will basically be just continuing to grow the brand, if possible.
I came up with the modular character design as a my way of limiting the number of cards a player would need to invest in to make any character he/she wants. There are essentially 11 races, 9 shifter types, and 3 genders, if you make gender-neutral on of them. What I was initially proposing was an 18-card set of races and gender cards, and a 9-card set of shifter types. All you need then are backgrounds and you're good to go.
I like the modular design approach for character building. I remember we looked at similar ideas early in DS 2 development.
DeleteAnother way to organize the beginner sets is to put the racial base card with 8 racial cards and the shifter base card with 8 basic shifter cards.
This would work towards Matt's desire to avoid buying cards he doesn't want.
It is a bit more work up front but not over time, if we want each race to have ability cards.
I personally would like to see the races develope more.
ReplyDeleteDragon's have a lot going on with them personally and don't think they need much else. They have the most cards out of any character type and Werewolves are starting to get that way too.
I'd personally would like to see more attacks for Unicorns, Pegasus, Wererats, Griffins, and Phoenixes. (Mostly the last two bc it's so hard to get their cards in the first place!)
I honestly LOVE the idea of the Wereshark, but it's got only 5 cards and A LOT of negatives. The only positive I can see is they are the only true aquatic beast out of them all and would be great for attacking the slave trade ships. I definitely think these should be pushed into becoming a bigger thing, but take out the (lose a card every 6 hours on land) bit, unless you come up with some sort of item that can stop that. That item can be magical or something. I honestly would make a Wereshark if they were more developed and put some serious thought into them.
Sense Furries are the thing, Scalies are probably become big too. ((Scalies are like furries, but with scales or lack of fur/feathers. Ya know, lizards, snakes, dragons, fish, whales, dolphins, etc)) For another possibility if the wereshark doesn't work out due to it's lack of breathing air, how 'bout something similar like a Whale, kinda like the killer whale?
I have no idea if anybody likes the thought or if anybody even liked the idea of the wereshark other then me, but I wanna put it out there.
Something in this vein, mom and I came up with aquatic forms for all the races, except the phoenix, that have been met with great relish by the players in our groups. The dragons had great fun as sea serpents taking out some of those aforementioned slavers. We also had narwhals, hippocampi, giant squid and a mer-avatar for underwater cerimonies. I'd love to see those published. I'd like to see an ungulate set using some of the Vorn betas I wrote all those years ago, but I would imagine aqua forms would be more popular.
DeleteOnce we deal with getting sets our for all of the existing main stream races and shifter types, we'll definitely consider them. :-)
ReplyDeleteOnce we deal with getting sets our for all of the existing main stream races and shifter types, we'll definitely consider them. :-)
ReplyDelete